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 World Cup 2018 
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Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:38 pm
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Hey guys, as we had the same thread four years ago, I thought it would be a good idea to have one for the 2018 WC as well ;)
What teams do you consider as favorites on the cup? Who will be the stars of the tournament?
Russia opened the tournament with a 5:0 against Saudi Arabia. Beautiful goals by Cheryshev, especially the second one ;)


Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:38 pm
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Interista93 wrote:
TheGreatRossonero wrote:
Your opinion doesnt have any worth, when you said that Puskas was better than Messi, that was enough to verify what kind of users are on the internet giving their thoughts about football.

What I think is that a player who shows his skills in more teams and countries can be considered as a legend. For example Ibrahimovic has been a key player in Netherlands, Italy, France and scored enough goals even in Spain despite not having had a good season. He is probably the best or one of the best attackers Sweden ever had eventi though Sweden national team hasn't ben great in the last two decades. Do you think Messi is better than Maradona, Batistuta, Kempes or Di Stefano? I also think that years ago the players used to fight to win a ball, to reach the opponents' area. Now I mostly see players who act like wimps, falling down as they are made of feathers. I would add also that football nowadays is invaded by corruption and lots of players score a lot of goals because "they have to", if you all understand what I mean.


I like people put some effort in their post triying to explain something, that is worth, I will post later a better post triying to answer you and also why I think Messi should be considerer the best and also the NT sudject.


Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:30 pm
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TheGreatRossonero wrote:
Your opinion doesnt have any worth, when you said that Puskas was better than Messi, that was enough to verify what kind of users are on the internet giving their thoughts about football.

How good that this is an European forum where everybody is free to speak their mind and not a forum where a retard kid from Argentina decides what opinions have "worth" or not :roll:

Regarding today's matches: Congrats to Russia & Croatia, amazing performances by Schmeichel, Subasic and Akinfeev. I feel especially happy for Akinfeev, finally he showed his class in an important match :)


Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:04 pm
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27DONI72 wrote:
Messi isn't even the best of his generation.



Who is then? The only player even close to him is Ronaldo, and I think it’s pretty obvious to anyone that’s watched them that Messi is better. Ronaldo isn’t a great playmaker compared to Messi, and is increasingly reliant on his teammates providing him service because he isn’t the great dribbler he used to be. Messi is just an incredibly complete offensive player, one of the most complete in history. It’s like comparing Cruyff and Pelé to Gerd Müller and Eusebio. One is an artist, the other is a scoring machine.


I don’t even really like Messi or Ronaldo, but I just don’t know why everyone has to put either of them down. We all love football here, there’s no need to insult the two best players of this generation and two of the greatest of all time. I doubt people back in the 70s were saying that Cruyff was a loser because he lost to Germany in 74 or that Beckenbauer was only a legend because of his teammates. Messi and Ronaldo deserve just as much respect as any player throughout history, anyone saying otherwise is just being immature.


Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:34 pm
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StuartBannigan wrote:
Messi and Ronaldo deserve just as much respect as any player throughout history, anyone saying otherwise is just being immature.


Many nowadays actually deserve respect, not just those two.


Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:43 pm
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StuartBannigan wrote:
Messi is just an incredibly complete offensive player, one of the most complete in history.

Well, I think Ronaldo is more complete than Messi. The shot is a bit more powerful, he is a better free kick taker in my opinion, he is a fantastic header (I know Messi isn't tall and normally he is not a good header), he has more dribbling skills and he manoeuvres better than Messi when marked by more players. If 2-3 defenders mark Messi well he goes on with more difficulty.


Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:52 pm
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El Capo wrote:
Many nowadays actually deserve respect, not just those two.


Exactly, it really annoys me. In 20 years the people that attack modern players will pretend that they always thought that they were amazing and continue to attack the players that are big then. Lots of players are writing history right now, people will remember these guys just like we remember the other legends of the game. That’s why it makes me so angry when I read some of the posts here, like JeanMarc saying that he wouldn’t have any players from 2000 onwards in the Spain all-stars. For every negative point about modern footballers, there’s several negative points you can make about players from the past...

Interista93 wrote:
Well, I think Ronaldo is more complete than Messi. The shot is a bit more powerful, he is a better free kick taker in my opinion, he is a fantastic header (I know Messi isn't tall and normally he is not a good header), he has more dribbling skills and he manoeuvres better than Messi when marked by more players. If 2-3 defenders mark Messi well he goes on with more difficulty.


Messi is easily the better free kick taker, Ronaldo hits the wall 99% of the time and scores the other 1%. And I’d say that Messi is better in tight spaces with the ball: he can easily beat two or three players while squeezing through them, we’ve seen him do it over and over again, while Ronaldo generally needs more space to run into and can barely beat one person these days never mind two or three. The only points I’d give Ronaldo the advantage on are that he’s better in the air, has better movement off the ball and is faster. I’d even say that Messi is stronger than him, it’s hard to call Ronaldo a physical player when he falls as soon as you breathe on him...


Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:00 pm
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I can only say that Ronaldo has been more determinant than Messi lately (The latest conquests in the UCL are proof of it).


Aside from the usual "physical" advantage of Ronaldo (heading, pace and power), he definitely has a big charisma that pushes Real Madrid to the European glory ( Marcelo, Sergio Ramos too).

That is perceived by his "detractors" as arrogance or whiny character; which is not.... Believe or not, this character is ironically praised in guys like Matthäus, Maradona and others.

That's all i can say of him


Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:19 pm
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Great
I hope some South American team win this WC
:)


Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:22 pm
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El Capo wrote:
I can only say that Ronaldo has been more determinant than Messi lately (The latest conquests in the UCL are proof of it).


Aside from the usual "physical" advantage of Ronaldo (heading, pace and power), he definitely has a big charisma that pushes Real Madrid to the European glory ( Marcelo, Sergio Ramos too).

That is perceived by his "detractors" as arrogance or whiny character; which is not.... Believe or not, this character is ironically praised in guys like Matthäus, Maradona and others.

That's all i can say of him




We know you are a RM fan and we respect that but say CR7 isn't an arrogant is too much and is a big lie.

(Alguien que dice que si sus compañeros estuvieran a su nivel cuando no salían las cosas es arrogante hasta los huesos)


Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:26 pm
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His perceived arrogance has pushed to the level he has reached.

Good or bad, doesn't matter.


Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:35 pm
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gurkenjoe93 wrote:
How good that this is an European forum where everybody is free to speak their mind and not a forum where a retard kid from Argentina decides what opinions have "worth" or not :roll:


It's not worth it because your opinion comes from the point of view of a person who does not have any kind of sense.

You compare an SS with a defender, a defensive midfielder, an AMF and then a CF, all of different generations, all so different and who lived football idiosyncrasies so different, that is what makes those arguments so stupid and that is no longer worth of be reading nor a solid argument beyond writing names.
most of Messi's detractors are people who usually support CR7 or for some strange reason detest Messi, anyone who has a minimum approach to football and criteria beyond a TV screen would realize the reason why Messi has suffered in our national team and also why for some people he is the best.
Any person thay believe that only can win alone it doesnt know anything about football, football is a collective game, if someone played alone then put Zidane, Maradona or any other against 11.

I just want to hear the opinion of someone who knows about football, a great player someone who has knowledge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3gKPRMxoUU&t=31m52s (I want to imagine Puskas doing this)

If Messi is not the best of this generation, I do not know who can be, I have not seen anyone with that level.


Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:55 pm
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El Capo wrote:
I can only say that Ronaldo has been more determinant than Messi lately (The latest conquests in the UCL are proof of it).


Aside from the usual "physical" advantage of Ronaldo (heading, pace and power), he definitely has a big charisma that pushes Real Madrid to the European glory ( Marcelo, Sergio Ramos too).

That is perceived by his "detractors" as arrogance or whiny character; which is not.... Believe or not, this character is ironically praised in guys like Matthäus, Maradona and others.

That's all i can say of him


Like Messi, Ronaldo is an incredible player that we will not see in a long time when he retires.
But they also share a fact, both have been rounded by amazing players, like Modric a player from another world, Marcelo one of the best SB's in history, they have managed to create an amazng group of players who can show great virtues and who it has led them to win so much.


Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:01 pm
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TheGreatRossonero wrote:
(I want to imagine Puskas doing this)

I want to imagine that Messi scores four goals in an European cup final - wait a minute, the only guy who did that was Puskas while he was already 33 years old :roll:
You want more?
Messi in three EC finals = two goals. Puskas in three EC finals: seven goals.
Messi in the EC: 100 goals in 125 matches = 0,85 goals per match. Puskas: 37 goals in 41 matches = 0,90 goals per match.
Messi in La Liga: 383 goals in 418 matches = 0,92 goals per match. Puskas in La Liga: 156 goals in 180 matches = 0,87 goals per match.
Messi in Copa del Rey: 48 goals in 68 matches = 0,71 goals per match. Puskas in Copa del Rey: 49 goals in 41 matches: 1,19 goals per match.

I've only taken Puskas stats while playing for RM and it's amazing how a player who was already 31 years old when he joined Madrid still manages to beat Messi in almost every category :lol:

Still not enough?
Messi at the NT: 65 goals in 128 matches = 0,51 goals per match. Puskas at the NT: 85 goals in 89 matches = 0,96 goals per match.
Messi's goals in the League: 383 goals in 418 matches = 0,92 goals per match (La Liga). Puskas goals in the league: 514 goals in 528 matches = 0,97 goals per match (Hungarian League & La Liga)
Messi's goals in national cup: 48 goals in 68 matches = 0,71 goals per match (Copa del Rey). Puskas goals in national cups: 66 goals in 52 matches: 1,27 goals per match.

But I'm pretty sure that those are all stats faked by "international journalism" to make Puskas (who even lost two years of his career because of his immigration to Spain) look like a great player and profilic goalscorer :roll:
And one last thing: when it comes to accept other opinions, you're not better than Jorge Rafael Videla was..


Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:40 pm
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You and I both know that those stats are skewed by the amount of goals that every team scored back then, be honest...

For context, just take the years Puskas and Messi got to the WC final: the 1954 World Cup had 5.38 goals per game, while 2014 had 2.67 goals per game. It’s easy to score a lot more goals when teams have 5 forwards and 3 defenders instead of a maximum of 3 forwards and 4 defenders.

There’s a reason that there’s never been a European Cup final with 10 goals since that day in Glasgow, and it’s not because the attackers got worse...


Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:18 am
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StuartBannigan wrote:
You and I both know that those stats are skewed by the amount of goals that every team scored back then, be honest...

For context, just take the years Puskas and Messi got to the WC final: the 1954 World Cup had 5.38 goals per game, while 2014 had 2.67 goals per game. It’s easy to score a lot more goals when teams have 5 forwards and 3 defenders instead of a maximum of 3 forwards and 4 defenders.

There’s a reason that there’s never been a European Cup final with 10 goals since that day in Glasgow, and it’s not because the attackers got worse...

Well, you talk about total of goals scored in the World Cup. So, if Messi is so great and perfect, why he didn't score like 5-6 goals in each World Cup? In that case he would have been better than Puskas and many more. :lol:


Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:26 am
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